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So it's been a while since I've both read Revelations and watched the early seasons but I do recall that there was a lot of things from the book used in it.
Over the summer I'll try to go through the book and see what links in to Supernatural.
I am quite sick of season 1-3 but from what I remember they took quite a few ques. Season 4 and 5 was when it blew out to full story mode and I loved it. I'd enjoy reading what you find. Both the show and the book are huge so there is much I have forgotten from both.
I love it when I do my bible reading at night and find so much relating to life now and entertainment I most enjoy. Its amazing how something written 2000 years ago is so relevant to human life still. To take the stories from ancient writings and mold it into fandom form is a brilliant idea.
Have you made a start on this? I read the bible every day, but that doesnt mean I read a lot of it haha. Revelations might be out of my league right now but I'd love to read others observations. Maybe it would put me in the apocolypsish mood.
I read through Revelation this week, so I’ve started on one thing at least. I’m excited to contemplate the seven seals, and I feel like I remember them having an Abbadon but I can’t remember much of it.
I was reading today around Rev 12. Could be Jacks birth. Havent really got my thoughts in post order yet and could be a stretch. The 2 wings like an eagle - the president vessel. The destroyers child, father devours the child (in evil - hmm I just thought more of Angel s4 there). The earth splits - the alternate universe door. The mother hides in heaven under gods protection. I havent got the direct passage on me (its out in the cold garden) and this is probably the wrong thread for it anyway.
In terms of season 4-5, I've been watching season 4 and it's been a long time, but in terms of thinking about it in relation to Revelation - how should we understand the breaking of the seals and the freeing of Lucifer? Maybe I missed the explanation.
I'm just thinking about Rev 20:1-7, where Satan is bound by an angel. He his bound for a 1000 years, the reign of Christ begin for a millenium (the first resurrection), then Satan is set free from his prison again, before ultimate defeat (where even hell is destroyed 20:14).
Satan being bound indicates that he was roaming free before the millenial reign in Revelation. But he is bound in SPN, and we're clearly not in any Christ-like reign in season 4 (pre-release of Lucifer).
So, did I miss the part of why Satan was bound in SPN?
I kind of feel like season 5 is about that binding of Satan by Michael (not mentioned by name in 20:1-3), so why did Satan have to be released from the start? Why was he bound? I feel like there is probably an obvious answer (or I'm overthinking this) and I just wasn't paying attention during that episode, lol.
Him being bound obviously works better for the story SPN is telling.
11:7 reads like the witnesses and breaking of that seal?
Revelations 12:7 seems to be the start of the first Michael and Lucifer battle. Perhaps Spn took that and went straight to the Lucifer in the pit part.
SPN seems to take from a few christian interpretations. This is why I was so excited
When Dean was Micheal, I didnt know which direction they would take. I was sorta hoping they would go the Jesus route but they didnt, but also sort of did
My brain isnt so clear today so I'll start here and see if you follow. Dont get mad and take this all too seriously, see it like it is intended, a discussion of fiction.
I'm just thinking about Rev 20:1-7, where Satan is bound by an angel. He his bound for a 1000 years, the reign of Christ begin for a millenium (the first resurrection), then Satan is set free from his prison again, before ultimate defeat (where even hell is destroyed 20:14).
If my understanding is correct, some Christians believe that we are in the reign of Christ right now. Satan was bound and Jesus (Micheal) has been on the throne since 1914. The maths that determined that date is debatable but there are those who interpret the signs of world doom as the final days.
Satan being freed at the time of supernatural s4 to wreak havoc for a short time could be a time twisted version of his freedom before Chuck comes along at the end and wipes the lot out to start again So far the whole lot reads like a fanfiction of the bible, so anything could go.
Micheal being taken from the throne and put in the prison changes the whole story. Now Dean and Sam determine the fate of the world instead of the one who was sent to rule it. Season 14 throws a spanner in the works but I can see how it was convenient, and not far off some interpretations, for Satan to be trapped at this time.
The reign of Christ is determined by world wide turbulence unseen before in history. Gotta admit, it has been pretty turbulent world wide during the last 100 years!
It baffles me why people who claim to be christian have no faith in the earth's ability to be restored as it was designed, and no faith that god will save us. We gotta stop stressing each other out with forcing adherence to current social ideals. Giving over to god is part of the gift of grace. Its the only way I find peace in this life
As I write this I see it is a stretch but its still fun to muse over and maybe someone can follow what I am trying to communicate. The last days, the 1000 year reign of christ, are said to be marred by destruction and hatred according to scripture.
2 Timothy 3:1-5 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here.2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal,3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
and then the next bit that made me laugh because of how and what we are discussing -
6 From among these arise men why slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of the truth.
(scripture taken from The New World Translation in line with the comments on 1914)
SPN seems to take from a few christian interpretations.
If my understanding is correct, some Christians believe that we are in the reign of Christ right now. Satan was bound and Jesus (Micheal) has been on the throne since 1914. The maths that determined that date is debatable but there are those who interpret the signs of world doom as the final days.
Not familiar with this theology. Except the doom part, the end of days is always interpreted as the present by some of course
Satan being freed at the time of supernatural s4 to wreak havoc for a short time could be a time twisted version of his freedom before Chuck comes along at the end and wipes the lot out to start again So far the whole lot reads like a fanfiction of the bible, so anything could go.
Haha, fanfiction! But yeah, I guess that is kind if plausible
Micheal being taken from the throne and put in the prison changes the whole story. Now Dean and Sam determine the fate of the world instead of the one who was sent to rule it.
Well, if s13 alt world Michael is anything to judge by, good thing
(Skipping all the s14 comments as I don’t want spoilers)
To break it down a bit more -
The reign of Christ is determined by world wide turbulence unseen before in history. Gotta admit, it has been pretty turbulent world wide during the last 100 years!
Not necessarily the most turbulent century ever though, however tech has definitely escalated the turbulence.
As I write this I see it is a stretch but its still fun to muse over and maybe someone can follow what I am trying to communicate. The last days, the 1000 year reign of christ, are said to be marred by destruction and hatred according to scripture.
2 Timothy 3:1-5 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here.2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal,3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
and then the next bit that made me laugh because of how and what we are discussing -
6 From among these arise men why slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of the truth.
(scripture taken from The New World Translation in line with the comments on 1914)
What about 1 Tim 4:3 on the single, militant vegans of the end times
”Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meat, which God hath created to be recieved with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.” (KJV)
I’ve encountered a couple of marriage hating, militant vegans the last couple of years
But anyway, more to the show, I find their Whore of Babylon very fascinating (99 problems - s5) and I feel like they’ve given her a great spin.
It reminds me of Revelations 2 dealing with Jezebel luring people to ”fornication” and the punishment they’ll suffer (second death)
2:20-22 Jezebel
2:23 ”I will kill her children with death”
I think fornication here can be interpreted as idolatry, i.e. fully surrendering to the will of a false prophet and doing evil. I think they cleverly show that evil, Leah, won’t take the most obvious shape which we would associate with the term ”whore” presently, or those kinds of actions. That evil is smarter than that and that is how it hoodwinks people with its promises.
I think Dean even tells the mom, who shoots the bartender (her friend) that she is not going to the ”good place” after this.
And The Whore specifically mentioned in ch 17 reminds me of Leah as she starts getting her followers to kill their friends, children included:
17:6 ”and I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus...”
SwanSongIts Jehovahs Witness belief, they are the biggest congregation after the baptists in my area. I thought 1914 made it obvious sorry haha.
Have you read the watchtower in the last 3 years? All of those come out of the same printing place, they are all delivered in sync across the globe - JW is exactly the same world wide. They pride themselves on it. The watchtower absolutely pushes medical treatment (extra especially for mental health). I will look see if I can find the mag that put me right off. It used a part of scripture well out of context to promote going to to the doctor for medical management. I am not arguing over what they may have believed in the past, but the push into medical treatment is exactly why I couldn't join them. I was so disappointed. I told them so too and they no longer deliver the watchtower anymore. They really are an interesting group of people, and they live more christian lives than any other church I have been a part of (besides the Free and Dutch Reformed who were similar to the JW in practice). I have been through a lot of christian denominations, its endlessly fascinating I'd be totally open to joining a cult and they were certainly not that.
Sorry for the off topic. I loved the way they lived, it was so similar to the work I did with the Dutchies but FAR less strict, and very appealing to those who want to pursue a Christian life path supported by scripture. I sometimes consider going to meetings again, they were set up much like group therapy is. It was a great coping strategy for those who find the world a hard place to love. I guess thats why they have such a large congregation here. I feel safe when I see them on my travels. They are good people. Im going to have to shelve my own beliefs on medical treatment to get a job, so who knows, I might join them in the long run. I like the Anglicans I am with now but they are all so rich, there is a real disconnect between what they preach and how they live. Plus they all think they are going to heaven. I'm not on the same path to heaven.
Edited to add - I just wanted to add that they are the religion most similar to fandom. They hold big conventions, host international and national travellers and speakers and have their own fan movies of the bible. The dramatic readings are a bit dramatic, but then I met the Anglicans and the JW readings no longer sound overly dramatic lol!
From my understanding, and the ones I know, they are big on Psalm 34:18 and less so on pharmaceuticals. As far as reading a watchtower, no, but I have a few JW friends and work with one. They will take medicine for health issues related to the body (blood pressure, etc) but from my understanding medicine that affects their mental state are frowned on. Same with alcohol, and anything that alters the consciousness.
From my understanding, and the ones I know, they are big on Psalm 34:18 and less so on pharmaceuticals. As far as reading a watchtower, no, but I have a few JW friends and work with one. They will take medicine for health issues related to the body (blood pressure, etc) but from my understanding medicine that affects their mental state are frowned on. Same with alcohol, and anything that alters the consciousness.
That would make sense to me! There were more than a few on meds at the meetings I attended. Mostly widowed women and men with Autism. This is the article I was referencing-
Jesus said that sick people need a physician. (Luke 5:31) So if you have such feelings, please do not be ashamed to seek help.
Many people who suffer from depression have found that medical treatment can help them to cope. Ojebode, Kaoru, and Adriana all received professional help and now cope much better.
Doctors may use medication or talk therapy or both to treat depression.
So far the whole lot reads like a fanfiction of the bible, so anything could go.
